Edith Carolina Rojas

So, you were born and raised in Nicaragua?

I was born and raised in Nicaragua, in a small town called La Paz Centro. I lived there until I was 18. And then my family and I moved to the United States 13 and a half years ago—it's been a while now.

A small town surrounded by nature?

Absolutely. Two very close volcanoes—fifteen minutes away. Momotombo, which erupted two years ago—it's this huge stratovolcano. And then Cerro Negro is also nearby and is the youngest active volcano in Nicaragua. And that was the first volcano I ever saw erupt, when I was 5. I grew up very close to these two volcanoes, so I grew up with earthquakes and ash falling out of the sky. The country itself has 12 volcanoes—we're on a subduction zone, so it's a volcanic chain. And so when I grew up, my biggest question was, "Why is it a volcano and not a mountain, when it looks like a mountain. Why can't we just call it that?" And no explanation would ever satisfy me. My Mom would be like, "Because lava comes out of it." And I'm like, "Well if there's nothing coming out of it right now, why can’t we just call it that?" So I grew up with this deep respect and curiosity for nature. I mean you can see them from my backyard. Both of them—this giant stratovolcano, and then this beautiful cinder cone.

That's intense.

It was.

Did you engage with nature? Were you outside playing?

All the time. Like, every day.

Did you collect things?

I used to collect jars of sand of different colors. I would dig a hole and make a baby soil column and put it in a jar. At that time I didn't know what I was doing or looking at, but I knew that it was cool, and it was different. We had a back house [behind] our house, and I had a lab. I set up all of these jars with different sands and pebbles. And it was my lab. I would go and play there and you know, dump water in the jars... see what happened.

There's a little scientist brewing.

There was. A little bit.

So you had these questions about volcanoes and these curiosities about sand and soil... did you even know what geology was back then? Did you think about science?

I had no idea what geology was. To be candid with you, I liked science, but I wasn't into science growing up. I was not good at math—not at all. I associated my lack of skills in math with science, so it didn't occur to me. I grew up in nature; but, I thought you understood it because you looked at it every day. I know where the sun rises and sets. The same for the moon. But it wasn't something that I was like, "This is what I'm going to pursue."

What did you think you would pursue? Or were you even thinking about it back then?

Well, I finished high school when I was 16 and went to law school. I wanted to do something that could help people and figured that I could be like Erin Brockovich. You know, I could deliver justice for people. So that's what I did. I went to law school and I grew up thinking that I would do something like that.

Did you finish law school?

I attended two years and then we moved to the U.S.

What were those two years like?

I did very well. I was at the top of my class. I liked it. I was 16 and in college. I thought I was living the life. I went to live in the big city and it was a really good experience. I was happy. I'm convinced that if I had stayed home I would be on the supreme court or something like that.

So you may not have been very good at math, but you were obviously good at other things.

Right? Actually, I did pretty decent in school. And I learned this when I was older—I'm a kinesthetic learner. I'm a doer. I learn by doing. So I sit in class and I doodle—not quite watching what's happening. I can hear you and I can be making drawings, and then I go home and I redo whatever I learned that day. Which is why geology worked for me perfectly because the labs are hands on. And so I struggled with that in school because a lot of my teachers assumed that I had behavior problems—that I didn't want to pay attention.

But you graduated at 16?

I did.

Did either of your parents encourage you in any kind of way?

My Dad. The most amazing thing he ever did for me...

... this was your stepdad?

... My stepdad. My stepdad would sit there and do math with me on Sundays. And nobody else wanted to do math with me because it involved a lot of tears and a lot of frustration. [Everyone laughs] But he had the patience of an angel. My dad was an accountant—he was a numbers guy. And he taught me all of these tricks to make it easier for me. But he always told me that if something was difficult, all it meant was that I needed to spend a little bit more time on it. And that was it—it stuck with me. I was like, "You know what, I struggled with this. Somebody can learn it in two hours—I'll learn it in four." And it was really cool. He would also pop the hood of the car and be like, "Come watch. Let me show you how this works." And so did my uncle—he is an electrician. And they would let me snoop. They didn't tell me like, "Come and learn this." But also they didn't discourage it. They were like, "You're curious about how this works? Let me show you." So that was really cool. I'm very thankful I had that.

Did you grow up with both parents?

I grew up with my mom and my stepdad, yeah. He came into our lives when I was five and then he passed away when I was 16.

I’m so sorry to hear that.

It's okay.

Were you raised in a religious home?

Yes, a Catholic home—Roman Catholic.

Did being raised Catholic have an influence or a hindrance on where you are today?

It's a big struggle of mine, because as of today, I'm a scientist to my core. I believe in evidence-based everything. But I was raised in a home where we prayed and we went to church on Sunday and where everything is, you know... God-willing. So I do struggle with my faith, greatly. I declared I was an atheist at like age 12. [Everyone laughs] But one curious thing that I do remember from a very young age is that we have this tradition of bringing out the Virgin Mary in August, and we'll take it around the volcano and they throw holy water on the volcano to try to stop it from erupting and destroying the town, yet again. And I remember thinking at a very young age, "This does not work like that. I think it's cool; but, I don't think there is something behind this." So I went to find my own answers. I didn't think the volcano stopped because Virgin Mary magically said so.

But your family must...

… They do...

... or at least participate.

They participate in it, but they do think that the hand of God is in everything that happens around us—it's his will, not ours.

Is that a source of contention between you and your family?

A little bit, yeah. The thought that I might not be saved or that I might not make it to the kingdom. It breaks [their] hearts. You know, in their infinite love, the thought that I won't see them in the afterlife because of my choices.

Are they aware of your atheist stance?

I try to sugarcoat it a little bit [Everyone laughs] And if I'm to be honest, I'm more of an agnostic. I go back and forth with it. But, we no longer talk about it. And you know, when I visit Nicaragua, I go to church with my grandmother. I do not fight it. I say Amen and God bless you. Because, I can break anybody's heart, but not my grandma's. But, with my Mom, it's a source of a lot of arguing.

Why did your family immigrate to the states?

My mom got married. I really do think that’s the biggest gift she ever gave us. I know that she loved her life back home and it was a good life, but she knew that if we had stayed, the country at some point would collapse politically, which is happening right now. We're on the brink of a civil war. But she also knew, and I saw this with half of my class from law school, she knew that if I graduated, there was a huge chance that I would hang my degree in our living room and go on to do something else because there wouldn't be jobs available. So she just wanted more opportunities for us.

When she broke that news to you, that must have been heavy to hear.

I was angry. I was angry for a long time.

I bet. I mean, you grew up in the same house, right? That's a lot tying you to a place. And for you to be uprooted—not by your choice—that can be rough.

It was. And in my view, you know, I had a life mate. I was 18. I had gone to law school for two years. I had my college boyfriend who I swore I was going to marry. For me, my life was done, you know. [Everyone laughs]

Plateaued. [More laughter]

Exactly. [More laughter] I was like, "All I have to do now is graduate. I marry the doctor. I eventually end up in the Supreme Court. I'm good." [Even more laughter] And then, she brought us here.

I wanted to stay. I was 18. My mom made sure she told both my grandmothers—maternal and paternal—that they could not offer me to stay with them. She was like, "She's going to be angry. And she's going to be angry at everybody else, but at some point she'll get it. So please don't offer to keep her here." And when I came to the U.S., I was a resident already. We went through the whole residency process while we were living in Nicaragua. So, you know, now I get it. I really do. Why would I give up my residency in this country where I could have and be whatever I wanted to. We have to at least try. That's what she said, "Just try."

Where did you move to first when you came to the states?

We moved to Rosemead. I lived there for about a year to a year and a half with my mom, and my sisters, and my mom's husband at the time. But L.A., or just California, was too hard on my mom—it was too white. She struggled with the language and the cultural shock.

Where your mom is now?

My mom lives in Florida. Nicaraguans migrate to Florida, so…

… Is there a large community?

It's a large community and all of her family is there.

Oh, interesting. What was Rosemead like for you? Was it also a culture shock for you?

Oh, it was horrible for me. Oh my gosh. The first five years were hard. And it wasn't just the cultural shock. I mean, imagine coming from a one horse town. And Rosemead is not even a big city. You know, we didn't speak the language. I had grown up in the same house. My elementary school was two blocks away, which was also the high school. And I lived in the big city for like a year for college. But other than that I have been nowhere else. So it was hard. And I remember thinking, "Where are the people who look like me?" Rosemead is mostly white and Asian. There isn't a large...

... There isn't a Latinx community?

At the border with El Monte, there are more Hispanics.

Especially El Monte.

Especially El Monte, right. But where we lived in Rosemead, there weren't a lot. But even the Latino people that I encountered, they were from Mexico and they sound different. And I remember thinking, "I miss people who sound and look like me." [Laughter]

Did you experience fear or uncertainty?

There was a lot of uncertainty in the first five years. And even after that, there was always a lot of uncertainty. But when you're an immigrant, there are other issues that you're dealing with, like the language barrier, or the fear of not fitting in. That's another thing that I struggled with, even today. I'm like, "I don't look like these people. I don't sound like this people," you know.

Was it lonely?

It was very lonely. The U.S. did not feel like home until I made friends, and that took awhile. I was very lonely. On the upside of that though, I poured myself into my books and I learned to speak the language within six months. Proficient enough to go on and get another high school diploma. I thought that the G.E.D. was the easy way out. [Everyone laughs] So I got another high school diploma because I couldn't get over the word “equivalent.” I was like, "Equivalent is not equal. And I have a high school diploma already."

And was that not recognized here? Because you've already graduated high school...

… Right. And I had even gone to college. But when I came here I was 18, so I couldn't go back to the regular high school, and I didn't speak the language, so I was thrown in an English as a Second Language classroom at an adult school. And they told me that it's going to be two years before you can even get a G.E.D. or a high school diploma. And I was like, "No it won't. I refuse to believe this is how that's gonna go." [Everyone laughs] So I went to ESL classes in the morning, in the afternoon, and on Saturday. On Sunday, I would take my baby sister who was nine at the time, and we would go to the public library, sit in the reading circles so I could see how people annunciate, and how they move their lips, to kind of helps things move. [Snapping her fingers] Took me six months.

And then I tricked them. I went to another city to ask to take the high school entrance exam. [Everyone laughs] Because they wouldn't let me at the school where I was. They were hell bent on the fact that I needed each and every level of English before I went for the high school diploma. And I was like, "I understand what you're saying. I can read it and I can write it. I may not speak it perfectly, but... give me the test." And they told me, "No." So I went to another city and passed the exam. But they caught me. I learned very early that your social has all of your information. So when the high school counselor ran my info, I popped up like I was a student at the other school doing my English levels. And he looked at me and he's like, "I'm gonna cut you a deal because you passed your exams. I'm going to let you in, but we will never speak of this again."

Deal! [Everyone laughs]

And I was like, "Deal, sir." [More laughter] And I was so thankful that he gave me that chance. I graduated Valedictorian of that high school graduation. I was not going to disappoint him. I was like, you did not make a mistake.

Well... your mom asked you to try and you did.

I did. I was driven. I had a goal.

And your goal wasn't to pursue law?

It was at the beginning. It was. And then...

... You just had to get the high school diploma.

So yeah, I had to get the high school diploma. And then a brand new problem presented itself: college. My mom was like, "We don't have money for that. You can go and learn a trade or something and we'll help you with that, but we don't have money to send you to college." And then I was really angry because I had worked really hard to learn the language and to get my high school diploma to get back where I was, you know—to get back to college. And then my mom was like, "We can't help you. Sorry." And I was like, "I'm going to go to college. I'm gonna enroll in a community college." So I got a part time job and I went. I declared liberal studies; because, it's one of the things that you can do and go into law school. And I was so bored. [Laughter]

Why?

Because it's just reading and writing. I mean, it was interesting, don't get me wrong. But, I didn't go home and be like, "I'm gonna do my homework, this is so great!" [Everyone laughs] But I kept pressing forward and then I was like, "I don't think I want to do law school here. It's not speaking to me." And I had a really great experience with my teachers at the adult school, so I was like, "Maybe I can be that for someone. I'm going to study to become a teacher.” I could do that with liberal studies, and then going into a single-subject credential.

Then I got an internship with the USGS, and oh my gosh! I got the internship in 2009. They were working on the ARC project, so we were working with Google Earth and looking at the records of past flooding and mass wasting events.

You worked out of Pasadena?

I worked out of Pasadena. I got to be in the same building as Lucy Jones, and sit in on their meetings, and work with real data, and see the impact it has in the world, you know.

This is before you found geology at Cal State Los Angeles?

This is before.

What made you apply for that internship?

The $3,000 they paid me. [Everyone laughs]

How did you find out about it?

I was part of the teacher preparation program and the guy who was running it at the time basically told me that I needed to apply for this. It was not on my radar. I always tell him, "You bullied me into this." Because he told me, "You're very good at books. And I'm pretty sure you're very good at bagging groceries," which I was working for Bristol farms of the time. He's like, "But you don't have an in-between. You need to get out of the library and do something. You need to at least spend the summer doing something else—something that will help your career." And so I applied and I got the internship. And it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. And I'm glad he told me that, because I was not going to do it. It was summer. I was going to summer school. I had a job. And then he also told me, "You need the money to transfer, so you're going to do this." And I did it, and I absolutely freaking loved it. I would sit in their meetings and watch these people with the giant screen, trying to figure out what's happening. And the work was exciting too. I'm sitting there looking at tons of data and trying to plot these landslides using Google Earth, and I remember thinking, "I like this. I go home and I feel happy." And I understood it too—somehow it clicked. So I went to CSULA and I switched majors.

While you were doing the internship, or afterwards?

Afterwards. I transferred in and I was very scared. I still had this fear that I wasn't good at science. So I made a deal with myself that the first semester I was going to take one geology class besides my liberal studies class. I was like, "If you do well, you'll take another one." And I took historical geology [Laughter] out of all the geology classes I could take. And it sucked sooo much. [Everyone laughs] It was hard. I would cry doing my homework, and I definitely hated that boring book. But I was happy. I don't know how to explain it other than the work was excruciating, but I still enjoyed it. And then I discovered that on the weekends we had field trips. And for somebody who doesn't have a penny to her name, to be able to do all of these fun things on the weekends, even when you're carrying your 10 pound backpack, I was like, "Hey! This is cool!" So I took historical geology, and then I took natural disasters, and then I took geology of southern California, and then I was sold. I was like, "Alright! We're gonna do this!" And I just switched gears.

That's cool. Where were you attending prior to transferring?

I was at Pasadena City College.

You were at PCC.

At PCC. And then that's where I did... I actually did two internships. I did one with UC Riverside, where they train you to teach science. And I really liked it. I liked all of the geoscience workshops that we did. And then the following year I did the one with USGS. And then I transferred.

That's cool.

That's very cool. You know, now that I think back, those are cool things I did. [Everyone laughs]

Absolutely. What is it about geology that sparked you? Help me understand. Besides reading these books and saying you were hooked, what about it appealed to you?

Everything has an explanation. Like, everything. Why is a volcano not a mountain? Those are two completely different processes. Collision zone. Subduction zone. I found my answer to what I have been wondering about since I was five years old—two different processes. Same type of plate boundary, but the processes are different. And I love that. People here, you know, we fear the big earthquakes. But then I interned at the USGS and they explained to me how P-waves travel, and the S-waves, and I was like, "You know what? The earthquake is not what kills you—it's the building. Why don't you work on regulations that seismically retrofit buildings." It made sense. And all of the sudden, the natural world was bigger and I understood places that I have never been to. I went to the Grand Canyon and historical geology made sense. It's like flipping through the freaking book in front of you. And I function like that. It just excited me, and it made me so happy, and all of these questions that I had, now had an answer.

Did you know that you were going to continue to do the M.S. right away?

So I went on to teach, actually, when I finished my bachelor's. I got a job with the LAUSD (Los Angeles Unified School District). I was working in the classroom. I would do intervention. I would work with kids who were struggling and try to teach them how to read. I did a lot of one-on-one.

What was that like?

I have to tell you, I enjoyed the teaching part, but I would take work home with me. When you work with children, it is very difficult not to care about them. I was taking the problems home with me because they're babies and you care. And that felt very overwhelming. And also, as much as I liked it, it felt a little bit mind numbing. I missed doing science. So I got a job with STAR, which is an after school program in Culver City. And they hired me as their science teacher, and then I was just doing science with students from kindergarten to fifth grade. So cool. Everything was hands on. Everything was an experiment. And at that time, my advisor [at CSULA], Jennifer Garrison, asked me to come back and work with her. She was like, "I don't have a lot of money, but I have a little bit of money. Why don't you come back?" And I went back to do my master's while I was also teaching science and that was good. So I started student teaching.

And then after your M.S., you went back and taught at CSULA, right?

Yeah. So I had my [master’s] thesis defense and the Department Chair came to see me defend. And they hadn't even approved it—they are debating—and she's like, "You need to come back and teach here." So, I went back and taught [at CSULA].

That's awesome. You're like, "You don't have to tell me twice."

I was like, "Yep, I'll take you up on that offer."

So you went back and taught what? Lecture courses?

I did. I taught natural disasters, the lecture and the labs. I taught mineralogy and petrology. Oh my gosh. That was so terrifying. But I did it. I taught 101. And I did the lab for igneous petrology.

Did you enjoy it?

I loved it. I really did. I have to tell you, I love teaching. To me, it's like I'm getting paid to talk about the stuff that I love. I get a kick out of it. And I also love the "Aha" moment when a student is doing a lab or when they finally recognize some mineral. I love it; because, they get so excited. They're like, "Yes! This is what quartz looks like under the microscope!"

"It undulates!" [Laughter]

Right! Undulatory extinction. [Laughter] I'm like, "That's your freebie. That one and biotite should be your freebie."

Yeah. Serious.

If I can recruit more minorities or more women, and make [the field] more diverse, I will. And I figured out early on in my career that a good way to do that is to be in the classroom. Because I clearly remember the day I met Lucy Jones and Dr Sue Perry at the USGS. These women are kick ass—bad ass a women. I was like, "I want to be you!" [Laughter] When you see these tangible, real examples, and when you see that they are humans like you—they are tired and get tired like you do—it makes your dreams so much more approachable, you know? And I love that. It was such a powerful moment for me when I met like Sue Perry, who was my boss there.

And then I went to GSA, and I met this tiny Colombian woman whose name I cannot remember, but she's the head of the NSF and she worked in geosciences outreach. This woman had an accent like I do, and she was tan, and she stood there and she holds this huge position and was talking about how much she loves teaching and bringing diversity into the geosciences. And you know, I knew that I could do research, and I knew that I could teach, but then there was another goal. I was like, "I can move up here. I can do great things." And you know, a lot of students need that. They need a role model. They can have very hard working parents like I did, but you know, my friends didn't really think college was that big of a deal, or it was too expensive. But if you can see somebody else that has done it, then you're like, "Maybe I have a chance here."

I agree with you.

Yeah. It's pretty cool.

How is it out here? What are the demographics at College of the Desert?

We are a Hispanic-serving institution. We're like at 75 percent Hispanic. It's been great so far. I like it. In the department, I'm like the only woman and Hispanic. I had read that [College of the Desert] is an Hispanic-serving institution; but, my panel was white as it can be. And they told me, "We could see it on your face. Like you walked in, and It was like you looked horrified." And it wasn't that I was horrified, I was just very overwhelmed. It still surprises me. I don't know why. This keeps happening to me. When I went to UCLA to do my training on the Mass Spectrometer, and I sat in that classroom, and I looked around, and I was shocked. I was like, "Where are the women? Where are the other people of color?" And then I went to GSA, and it keeps happening, repeatedly. So sometimes I'm like, "Why are you surprised still?"

The geosciences don’t reflect society.

It doesn't.

Why do you think that is?

I have a couple thoughts on that. It's expensive to follow a science path. It really is. My God. I'm going to be paying my student loans well into my old age.

My partner and I too.

Yeah. It's expensive, so it's scary. I was raised in a household where we were taught to never spend money we didn’t have. But I view it as my education is an investment. I checked how much I would be worth once I graduated, and I was like, "I can do this." Thankfully, [knocks on wood table] I now got the job. [Everyone laughs] It worked out; but, I took a huge chance. And, I have to be honest with you, I secretly knew I was a unicorn. [Laughter] It's like, "Somebody will want me." [More laughter]

But, it's expensive and it's also the same thing we're talking about: the geosciences don't reflect the general population. So I think I saw a lot of women and Hispanic women, especially, at Cal State LA pursuing a geology degree, but you don't find them once you get to the master's program. I just think that it gets very hard, and it gets very lonely. And a lot of people drop out. Also, guys can be dicks in the program. You know, I heard it once when I was lagging behind with my backpack. It was like 105 degrees in the Mojave Desert, and one of my classmates told me like, "Does the princess need help?" It's very discouraging and nobody checks them, you know. So I think there's a little bit of that still. It's very scary, and it is very lonely. I spent a lot of time alone during my master's program—12 hours in a lab, crunching numbers, and writing things. What really helped me was that I was at Cal State LA, and I had my little bubble. You know, my professors and my mentors had known me since I was 22, so it felt like home. I couldn’t tell you if I would have been able to perform at the same level had I been at UCLA, or Kansas University—they have a mass spectrometer. I can't say that I would have been able to do it. I know that it really, really helped that I was in a place that resembled, or had a resemblance of home.

I really think it has a lot to do with that. I think it has a lot to do with that there are not that many female professors in geology. At least have more guest speakers that can come in. There are women. But, there's not [very many] women of color. We’re still not represented in the geosciences, which is why I tweet so much. It’s ironic because here I am. [Everyone laughs] I never thought that my little Twitter would get me so much attention.

In closing, what advice can you offer other women of color pursuing the geosciences?

Half of those fears and insecurities are not real—that's the first thing. I still struggle with that. But, you're capable, even if you don't have the resources that your classmates have, and even if nobody looks like you. You are a gift. What you have to offer the geosciences is very unique, and very important, and very much needed. And when it sucks, it's temporary. It gets better. So I just want to encourage everyone to pursue it. And whenever you pursue your dreams, even if you don't know it, you're inspiring somebody else. There is always somebody watching, and there is always somebody who needs your example.